Possible Overstretched Shift Drum Stop Spring

[bs175dths]

After a 30 mile ride on the freeway, I am down shifting as I approach the red traffic light.
5th, 4th, 3rd (click, click,click) 2nd, (click, click, click), come to a complete stop and shift down to first (click, click, click) and it continues until I slip her into neutral.
Same situation on the trip home.
Once home I put the bike on the center stand. Up shifting wouldn't cause the clicking, only down shifting. When down shifting, as long as I kept pressure on the pedal (step on the pedal to down shift to the next gear and keep the pedal down) it would not cause the clicking sound. But once I lift my foot and allow the pedal to return to a neutral position, the clicking would begin.

I have almost 149,7XX miles on the bike.
This has never happened in the past, or indicated.

I removed the front cover and moved the shift mechanism both up shift and down shift for several minutes and nothing has jumped out at me.

What I suspect is the shift drum stop spring.
With the kind of miles I have, I suspect the spring is overstretched and too weak to hold the shift drum in its 'stopped' position, allowing the drum to rotate just slightly, thus causing the clicking sound I heard.

Replacement part from Honda is obsolete so I am headed for E-bay for a low mileage donor.

Does this sound reasonable?
Is there another direction you folks can direct me?

As always, all information is greatly appreciated.

I am trying to get the bike to the 200,000 mile mark, or maybe more.

It would be a shame to have to retire the bike because of an obsolete part costing less than $5.

Again folks, thanks in advance.

-Ride On

[bs175dths]

.... well, to date, 9 folks have viewed this thread and there are no responses. Not a problem.
I looked at some 80, 90 E-bay auctions, chose 29, then started to study the pictures.
After studying the pictures of 29 auctions, I narrowed it down to 7. Of those 7, I chose two, and bought one. It is due to arrive with today's mail.
Before installation, I plan on measuring the replacement springs length and once the old one is removed, measure the length of the old one and do a comparison. I suspect the old one is longer than the replacement. (Or, at least, that is what I am hoping.)
I still have another littler spring coming (Monday or Tuesday) and that one is NOS.
I plan on reusing all the old o-rings since I recently replaced all the o-rings when I replaced the water pump. The flat gasket was destroyed when I removed the cover, so that one will be replaced.
I will keep the forum posted on my progress and its outcome.
All the symptoms pointed in the direction of the shift drum stop spring and so all my eggs are in that basket.

Stay tuned..........

[bs175dths]

.... well, the replacement spring arrived.
I removed the old and laid it next to the used, replacement, and mine was maybe 1 or 1.25mm longer than the replacement.
I installed the replacement, used all the old o-rings (low miles since the water pump) and didn't bother to clean and replace trans cover gasket....... I just wanted to make sure this worked before investing more into the bike.
I finished the assembling, added fresh oil and filter, and distilled water.
Fired up as easy as usual (the engine runs very good).
I shifted up and down through the gears while on the center stand, and it all sounded good.
Then it happened....
As the bike was at a slight forward angle on my driveway apron, the sound reappeared!
I shifted, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, then back down again, and the noise was there again.
Back at home in my driveway, with the engine running and the tranny in neutral, I rock the bike up on the center stand, it rocked back on the rear wheel, then forward causing the front wheel to touch.
Again, that sound.
Curious, I rocked the bike on the center stand alternately touching the rear and front wheels to the ground. Each time the front tire touched, then the rear, the sound would appear, then disappear.
Thrust washer(s)?
Spring washer?
Bushing(s)?
In any case, it is roughly $200 in parts to replace the parts still available through Honda.
Some parts are obsolete.
Then there is my labor.
So, I am looking for a replacement 84 engine, one I can drive to so I don't have to spent the same for freight as for the engine.

We had a good run....
Engine still runs great, its the tranny that needs attention.

Once I find a donor engine, I will once again be.....

[bs175dths]

    UPDATE:
Engine out
Front and rear covers off
Heads removed (I took both off (over achiever))
Cases split

What I found was some serious wear on the second shift fork for the second and third gear on the main shaft. There is so much wear on the fork the teeth on the adjacent gear have wear and hot spots.

...... stay tuned!

[joe turner]

Did the bike have a heel and toe shifter ?

[bs175dths]

No Heel-Toe shifter, but it does have an added shift lever outboard of the factory shift lever which allows me to up-shift by stepping on the outboard lever. Down-shifting is done by the factory lever, of course.
The nice thing about this outboard lever is, I don't have to wedge my boot under the factory lever. (tight fit)
At first I thought this was made up by the Original Owner (I am second owner). But then a few years back, I saw another one on EBay, so I can only assume, it was available in the aftermarket.

-Ride On

[joe turner]

No Heel-Toe shifter, but it does have an added shift lever outboard of the factory shift lever which allows me to up-shift by stepping on the outboard lever. Down-shifting is done by the factory lever, of course.
The nice thing about this outboard lever is, I don't have to wedge my boot under the factory lever. (tight fit)
At first I thought this was made up by the Original Owner (I am second owner). But then a few years back, I saw another one on EBay, so I can only assume, it was available in the aftermarket.

-Ride On

Makes me wonder if po used shift lever as a foot rest? Will two gears and a fork repair the transmission?

[bs175dths]

Replacing the defective fork and gear would repair the transmission, but that transmission has almost 150,000 miles, so just replacing the defective parts would be a waste of time.
I am replacing the transmission parts with a transmission with less than 30,000 miles.
While I have the case split, I am also cleaning and checking parts for wear and excessive wear, and replacing accordingly.
Some parts are obsolete. Other than surfing the net for NOS, parts with low miles are the next option.
This is going to take some time, and I am going to take my time.
If I do this correctly, I can go back to taking my bike to work, getting very good mpg, and add more miles on this incredibly well designed work of art........

So far it has been a learning experience I can share with the forum, as the situation dictates.

[bs175dths]

Transmission and clutch have been replaced and are in the half case.

Now comes joining the halves.... this will be entertaining........

Stay tuned.

[Milesofsmiles]

Enjoy reading your progress and troubleshooting - keep up the good work and hope all comes together well.

[bs175dths]

Piston Slider - p/n 07955-4630000 fits 75.0mm pistons (GL1100?)
p/n 07955-MG90000 fits 75.5mm pistons (GL1200)
I found one slider (two are required per the European Service manual) it is suppose to arrive tomorrow (Friday) or Saturday........ we will see how it goes....

[bs175dths]

.... well, here is how it went.......
Last Saturday I spent almost three hours trying to figure out how to get those rings on the two pistons to compress enough to slide the pistons into their cylinders.

What I came up with was two strips of plastic cut from an empty 5-quart oil jug and two nylon ties.
I wrapped the strip around the rings and used the zip tie to hold the strip in place.
Lots and lots of oil, prop the pistons up with clean cloth, enough for me to hover the engine case over the pistons and line things up.
Clean rags lined the case so if a piston fell, or the case half fell, no damage would occur.
A long three hours of attempting later, frustration had set in and I was done for the weekend.

One thing I learned was as the plastic slid down the piston apron, the plastic curled into the recess of the piston and all motion stopped! I made one cut on the lower side of the strip and gave it a slight curl away from the piston.

Fast forward and I had found and bought this piston slider which was coming....
Thursday after work, I had about 1 hour to 'play' so.....
lots and lots of oil, prop the pistons up with clean cloth, enough for me to hover the engine case over the pistons and line things up, same as last Saturday........

AND THE PISTONS SLIDE INTO THEIR CYLINDERS!!!!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME??????

The case slide down onto my fingers. I placed clean cloth on the case mating surfaces and raised the case half high enough to get my oily fingers in far enough to get a hold of the plastic strip. One at a time, I was able to coax the plastic strips out of the engine cases. I then cut the two zip ties, aligned the oil strainer, and the engine case mating surfaces met.

I carefully rotated the clutch basket several rotations to allow me to to sleep that night.

Today, Friday, the piston slider was delivered.

In a nut shell, I was able to compress the piston rings and insert the pistons into their cylinders using two strips of plastic cut from a 5-quart oil jug, two nylon ties, and some clean cloth........


oh, and persistence.

Now, on to the next step............

[joe turner]

A little late, had good luck using hose clamps as ring compressors .

[bs175dths]

A little late, had good luck using hose clamps as ring compressors .

I thought about hose clamps too, especially since they come in a variety of band widths and diameters, but they are not designed to be smooth on the inside diameter, and I didn't want to risk scratching the rings or piston aprons. I figured the oily plastic wouldn't and couldn't scratch aluminum.

Of course, the real test will be 500 miles down the road........

[bs175dths]

Okay, Monday is a holiday and so far the family has no plans, which means, I can continue to spend time cleaning matting surfaces for gaskets, cleaning the inside of the rear cover, the inside of the front cover, the exterior of EVERYTHING..... there's a whole lotta cleaning going on!!!!
Then there are o ring and oil seal replacements, several on the rear cover. The o rings for the front cover were replaced not too long ago when I replaced the water pump.
Nibble, nibble, nibble, as life permits..........

(I keep reminding myself - 'Self, take your time. Don't be rushed. Dot those I's and cross those T's, and the rewards will be grand.')