Lifter noise

[beemerman]

I have an apparent dry cam on the left bank after changing the head gasket. @-) Nothing was making noise until I changed out the gasket. :YMTONGUE: The noise is so loud that I do not dare test run it but a few seconds. :-W Any suggestions out there?. What is the significance of filling the "defoaming" reservoirs? I did this (or at least I thought I did) as part of the reassembly. What happens if one get air in the high compression area of the lifter? Do I need to dismantle the cam and lifters? Thanks for your suggestions.

[garyft]

Did you pull the camshaft assembly off when you replaced the gaskets? It's possible one of the lifters has air in it. The suggestion from my manual is to submerge the lifter in a container of kerosene and "pump" it with a small drill bit to get the air out. Then, make sure it stays upright until it put back into the bucket.

[beemerman]

No...that's what is surprising. I did not even touch the cam assembly at all. Could the issue with the spacing with the exhaust rocker arms be possible?

[garyft]

If by spacing you mean valve lash, that shouldn't have changed. I have heard of rocker arms getting "off center" so that could be the issue. I suppose it's possible that in working with the heads you probably turned them many different directions which could have gotten an air bubble into the hydraulic valve adjusters. In that case, the same bleeding procedure would apply.

[beemerman]

Is is possible for the lifter to drain if I set the head upside down for several days? If so can I extract the lifter without taking the camshaft itself out? if so, what procedure such as TDC etc. Thanks again.

[garyft]

The lifters could absolutely get air in them if sitting upside down. There is a warning in the manual not to turn them over. You can pull the lifters just by pulling the valve covers. Be sure you only pull one at a time and put any shims (they just look like washers) back in place. You can pull the lifter on any valve that's closed just by removing the plug. I don't recall offhand if it's the exhaust or intake that go in from the bottom, but those have a little cap that you have to be sure to put back on the lifter when re-inserting. The procedure for getting the air out according to my clymer is to set the lifter in a clear container of kerosene and use a small drill bit inserted into the top of the lifter to "pump" the lifter until no air bubbles come out.

When I had one fall out (the plug came unscrewed) I just used the starter to bump the engine over a little at a time. Just be sure the kill switch is off so the motor doesn't start and bump it over until the valve is closed on the lifter you want to remove.

[Ed Z]

Possibly a clogged oil port...

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[beemerman]

Possibly a clogged oil port...

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Yes, I thought about this, but it was working fine until I changed the head gasket. I had just changed the head gasket but sheared the small bolt on the bottom having to take the head off again. This caused the gasket to leak. Taking it off again when only changing the gasket (once I got a new one) resulted in the noise. I set the head on my work bench upside down for perhaps a week before getting the new gasket. I hope that nothing got into the port during disassembly. Also, the sound appears to only be one lifter. Thanks for the help.

[beemerman]

The lifters could absolutely get air in them if sitting upside down. There is a warning in the manual not to turn them over. You can pull the lifters just by pulling the valve covers. Be sure you only pull one at a time and put any shims (they just look like washers) back in place. You can pull the lifter on any valve that's closed just by removing the plug. I don't recall offhand if it's the exhaust or intake that go in from the bottom, but those have a little cap that you have to be sure to put back on the lifter when re-inserting. The procedure for getting the air out according to my clymer is to set the lifter in a clear container of kerosene and use a small drill bit inserted into the top of the lifter to "pump" the lifter until no air bubbles come out.

When I had one fall out (the plug came unscrewed) I just used the starter to bump the engine over a little at a time. Just be sure the kill switch is off so the motor doesn't start and bump it over until the valve is closed on the lifter you want to remove.

I take it that you would suggest bleeding all four lifters (exhaust and intake) just to make sure I get the errant one?

[garyft]

If it were me, I'd pull them all. It's a lot more work getting the valve cover off than getting the lifter out. I would definitely spend the extra time to make sure I got the right one.

[beemerman]

Ok the rookie novice has hit again @-) @-) . I bled the lifters (submerged in Keroscene, etc) . Everything seems fine ; ; . So far sooo good ... :YMHUG: Upon hearing the lifter noise, I went ahead and pulled the head again since that is all I did before (thinking I must have done something wrong).

OK ...put the head back on all with new gaskets :-SS ..started it up....ouch!!! @-) @-) worst lifter noise..... B-( What have I done wrong??? @-) . I am guessing the next step is to pull the cam assembly :?: :?: or perhaps a big hammer will do it??? #-O

[Ed Z]

Possibly a clogged oil port...

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Give it a checking...

[admin]

Could it be possible that you somehow you managed to plug up or perhaps leave out the oil control orifice? That's the tiny stepped metal tube with 2 o-rings on it. If this is plugged or forgotten you would definetely have problems.

[Ed Z]

I'm betting that it's debris from the head gasket scrapings that has clogged the oil port that supply’s the lifters... Haven't heard if he has gone ahead and checked or not.. I did mention it twice now, but seems to not believe it could be a cause... I would think that the even if the metal tube you mentioned was left out, there would be oil pressure as the head gasket would seal that port at least for a little while... Although I have not as yet removed a 1200 head, so I can't be sure on that one...

I have got to believe that the oil port I'm speaking of can be checked without the need to remove the cam shaft itself... If a guy where to place a bolt (nut on each side of it) with a tapered tip through a hole in a spare cam cover (the round stamped sheet metal one), I'll bet the cam can be held in place while the rocker shaft cover is removed (to clean the lifter reservoir supply port)
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[beemerman]

Well, finally back for an update. The issue was the head gasket itself. I learned an important lesson about from whom one orders gaskets. Some companies do not make sure it is the exact one you need. Once I got the right gasket, the problem was ended. The cooling issue is gone and the liftering is now happy in its oil bath. Thanks for the help.