Poll: most efficient way to get great working brakes You do not have permission to vote in this poll. |
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brake bleeders | 2 | 50.00% | |
vacuum pump | 1 | 25.00% | |
tube in jar | 0 | 0% | |
shop bought one way valve | 0 | 0% | |
pay a mechanic to do | 1 | 25.00% | |
buy a truck | 0 | 0% | |
Total | 4 vote(s) | 100% |
* You voted for this item. | [Show Results] |
trouble with bleeding front brakes, no pressure?
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hi wingers
the old project bike is nearing completion. she's had a face lift and lots of new parts. the calipers have been overhauled new pads and new brake fluid. the original stuff was like the strongest coffee colour. all the fluid is clear now. they're now back on the bike. they were primed and all worked on the bench. i've read the manual about bleeding process 'combined brakes' and started the bleed process with the front right. i've bought the usual stainless steel bleed nips and lot of the lovely guys on here, advise fit speed bleeders. has anyone heard of 'stahlbus' brake bleeder valves? do a search on google!.. these are a new german invention. better than the original speed bleeders. they're made in two halves, the bottom half stays in the caliper threads and you don't need to move it again. the top half is moveable and this is what you use to bleed the system. the reason why i like it, is that repetition of the 'open and closing' the threads cause wear on them and eventually they will fail, rendering the caliper useless. some speed bleeders fail under heat, the 'stahlbus' don't fail. they're not cheap, they're used in the world of racing and therefore a great safety buy. the 'bleeding problem, so to speak. i've drained the front master cylinder out and cleaned the port. i've undone the brake line banjo bolt and tested the compression in the mc. on placing my thumb on the hole and pressing the lever, there is so much pressure it forces my thumb off the hole. the previous owner, has installed new stainless steel brake lines and when bought the bike, the front brake was very strong. the brakes pads were rusty and thin. the brake fluid had perished, by the dark brown color. the calipers were cleaned and then painted with hi heat, two pack caliper paint and reinstalled a week later. i've bled brakes before, but not combined brakes. the front brake is none existant. i've tried to reverse bleed it and i can't get any bubbles by inserting the fluid with a large syringe and tube. i've then tried with the tube in a jar and had a friend do 'open and close' for a long period and I could obtain any front brake pressure? the back brake is working fine. the pedal is strong. i then tried the right caliper and nothing from that one either. q) should i invest in speed bleeders? q2) is a vacuum pump like mityvac or similar better than a 'no return value' in a bottle? someone advised me that the vacuum pump create additional air bubbles? i've bled brakes many times before, but the front ones, have got me very confused? they wont bleed. i've tapped the lines, especially at the top intersection, searching for trapped air bubbles. last night i connected a bottle and tube to the front right caliper and then a 1/4 turn open the nipple. then tied the brake lever in the pulled position. result this morning = nothing. i've searched the forum and a lot of wingers have similar problems. i can't ride my bike like it's, how strange this is. i've never known such a predicament and i just don't know what it's. i've not tried a vacuum pump bleeder, recommended? and/or speed bleeders? many thanks for your help wingers. angel signing off, ran out of brake fluid. fingers dropping off with 'open and close' bike doesn't want to me bled? |
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#1
07-11-2013, 06:32 AM,
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When you had the handle tied down you were shutting off the system. All that did was let any air in the M/C come to the top. When you squeeze the handle the piston takes the small amount of fluid that is in front of the piston and forces it into the line, as long as you hold the handle down the fluid can't go up or down the line. Now if you remove the M/C cap, open the bleeder fluid should eventually start flowing out just from gravity (it takes awhile to get going since you don't have much pressure). A mistake I have seen often is that the caliper pistons are put in backwards which creates an area too great for the fluid to push the piston.
1986 SEi Limited Edition. 1985 Aspencade
If it's not broke, I can fix that! |
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#2
07-11-2013, 08:37 AM,
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hi frank
many thanks for your reply. the calipers were serviced by a friend. could he of put the pistons in the wrong way round? he specialized in brakes. the pistons were put in with the flats inside and the hollows showing! can you send me a photo of how they should be please? he did all three, the rear brake is very strong. when you attached the tube into a filled container. the brake nipple is unscrewed 1/4 turn. you pull the lever in a few times then lock it off. repeat and it does nothing? he might've put the pistons in wrong? many thanks! angel |
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#3
07-11-2013, 08:54 AM,
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I put these on our 'Wing a couple of years ago. Sure makes it easier to bleed the system (according to my mechanic!).
http://www.speedbleeder.com/
Ian
Remember, it's the journey, not the destination, that matters. |
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#4
07-11-2013, 09:29 AM,
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If he put the flats in to the caliper then they are right. You know that only the left front caliper works with the hand brake, right? The right front and rear are on the foot brake. The only thing I can suggest at this point is to do as I said. Hook a hose to the bleeder and open it (you may need to open it more), remove the M/C cap and make sure that the reservoir is full and go watch tv, if you come back and the reservoir is empty then you know fluid is flowing, then just start over with the filling and pumping. You have to remember that you are only moving just a very small amount of fluid with each pump so you may have to pump it 100 times to flush the system then let it sit over night and pump it again. Really vigorous pumping will just whip up any air in the system so pump slowly, tap the lines from time to time to make any bubbles in the system release. Patience and persistence my friend
1986 SEi Limited Edition. 1985 Aspencade
If it's not broke, I can fix that! |
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#5
07-11-2013, 09:44 AM,
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many thanks wingers!
so the left caliper works with the hand brake. the right caliper and rear work together, unified, linked! in the manual it advises that you bleed the right caliper first, then the rear. my back brake is strong and perfect. are the two front calipers linked together? confused definitely! many thanks! Angel |
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#6
07-11-2013, 09:58 AM,
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No. Left front, hand brake. Right front and rear, foot brake
1986 SEi Limited Edition. 1985 Aspencade
If it's not broke, I can fix that! |
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#7
07-11-2013, 10:22 AM,
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hi frank!
thanks again. i just assumed that on operating the front brake it links to the rear brake. so the right hand brake operates the left brake! using your info, i connect ye olde glass container and vintage tube and asked a good friend to open and close the lever a few times and then hold in. i watched the big bubbles rise and it brought a very big smile to my face! sometimes the oldest methods are better than gizmos. in the uk, there is a motorcycle company called 'demon tweaks'. i looked for vacuum brake bleeding pumps and couldn't find any. what i did find was brake bleed bottles with a one way valve and a tube for £80 brit pounds. my coffee jar and tube cost nothing. you're correct in advising patience oh guru mechanic. a bit like bread making. :-)mmm i couldn't get all the bubbles out at one time. a bit each day? let nature and related gravity help. q) I've a riding technique question based upon using the brakes. on most classic bikes. you've separate brakes, not linked. if i needed to do slow riding. i would use the rear brake, throttle and slip the clutch. how do you use unified/linked brakes to ride slow please? I've never ridden a wing before. I've been riding 20 years, police trained on bikes! many thanks for pointing me in the right direction! Regards Angel :-) yippee, nearly there! x[/u] hi keaner! i will order some of the German ones i mentioned in my original posting. they're totally different to the original speed bleeds. do a search on the name above. i was very impressed with the newer speed bleeds. thanks again buddy! Angel (07-11-2013, 09:29 AM)Keener Wrote: I put these on our 'Wing a couple of years ago. Sure makes it easier to bleed the system (according to my mechanic!). |
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#8
07-11-2013, 11:43 AM,
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I'm not sure that there is a right or wrong way to use them. If I just wanna slow down a bit, like heading into a curve, I'll use just the front brake. If I'm coming to a stop I use both then release the foot and hold with the hand. The foot brake sends 70% of the fluid to the front when you apply it, since you want your stopping power to be in the front, all the rear brake is for is to keep the rear wheel behind you during heavy braking. It has very little stopping power.
1986 SEi Limited Edition. 1985 Aspencade
If it's not broke, I can fix that! |
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#9
07-11-2013, 12:40 PM,
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There is rhyme and reason to the linking of the right, front brake to the left, rear brake…..
Prior to Honda linking brakes, we all grew up with two separate braking systems on bikes, front and rear. Front disc was an improvement over the drum, the rear was always drum. As the bikes became faster and faster, dual front discs and rear discs stated to show up. There was a myth/fear, if an operator applied only the front brakes, he/she would do a rear wheel wheelie and be thrown over the handle bars. Honda, in their infinite wisdom (to keep selling more and more bikes) tried to eliminate this (fear) by joining (or ‘linking’) the rear brake to the front. Since the rear disc is on the left side of the bike, it only seemed logical to link the opposite side of the front of the bike. (allowing the bike to panic brake in a straight line???) So when bleeding the brakes, there are two systems, left front is one system, and the right front joined with the left rear, is the other system. General rule of thumb is to bleed the brake which is farthest from the master. In the case of the right hand lever, it is a no brainer since it operates only the left front caliper. In the case of the brake pedal, the right front caliper needs to be bled first and then the rear (left). Tried and true, tube-in-a-bottle can be used on these bikes. I can stretch far enough to bleed the systems myself. I have considered speed bleeders for my four-wheeled modes of transportations, but I just ask for an assistant. (my son is now 16, so he will do.) The other items of interest are the following: If rebuilding the master (front or rear brake, or the clutch), don’t forget to prime the pump or you will be wasting your time. If rebuilding a caliper, standard bleeding practices apply, just remember, the caliper needs to fill with fluid, so be patient. If the system stills feels mushy, bleeding at the banjo bolt may assist in getting the air out of the system. Also remember, air moves up, so leaving the system to allow any air to move to its highest point may facilitate getting the air out. If fluid is spilled, it is water soluble, so douse the area with water. BTW – I like to pump the system and hold the lever or pedal down on the third pump, slowly open the bleeder valve at the caliper, then close it, THEN release the lever or the pedal. ALSO, I use the proper sized box wrench (or a line wrench will do – which is a box wrench with one side missing so it can be threaded over a brake line) PLEASE DO NOT USE AN OPEN ENDED WRENCH AS THESE WILL ROUND THE BLEEDER! Good Luck with your brake bleeding and we look forward to hearing of your road travels…….
enjoying the view from the saddle....... due mainly to the people and information found within this site
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#10
07-11-2013, 01:40 PM,
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hi frank, bs and other wingers!
many thanks for really helpful advice, being a rookie wing assembler I've great respect for your cummulative knowledge. we're getting there now, just need to do an engine swop. finding the 'hens teeth, bargain of the year the nos engine, carbs and starter was so fortunate. i was just in the right place, at the right time. i love learning how to make all the parts work correctly. the po's just neglected the wing. patience, perseverance, paid off with the brakes. many thanks everyone! regards Angel |
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#11
07-13-2013, 03:53 PM,
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hi ya'all
I've now got brakes, yippee! The front right and rear calipers were easier than the front brake left caliper. I've tried for quite some time. I was using the tube in a jam jar method. I've tried a few things for the left caliper front brake and did a MC clean out and a reverse bleed. this sorted it. The hand brake is still spongy though. Is this normal? I expected a good solid brake? Many thanks for helping me everyone! Regards Angel |
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#12
07-17-2013, 01:16 PM,
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CONGRATULATIONS! YOU NOW HAVE STOP! next comes 'GO' with your killer deal of a find. Since you now have brakes, have you tried bleeding the hand lever at the banjo bolt? There may be some air trapped up there. (funny how an air bubble may want to travel to its highest point in a liquid) If you have already tried, let the system sit for a bit. This will let the system(s) sort out whatever air may still be in the system, then you can bleed it one last time. Good Luck and thanks for the updates. -Ride On
enjoying the view from the saddle....... due mainly to the people and information found within this site
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#13
07-17-2013, 01:27 PM,
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hi bs!
the brakes have been a challenge. I've found a garage in the uk run by a dedicated goldwing restorer. i found bill on ebay. I've bought a few parts from him, all good no rust. i asked him his background, he advised me 'I've been repairing goldwings since 1984!' To swop your engine carbs, balance them and tune the bike £300 brit pounds. I've neck and back injuries due to being rear ended by a white van man. i was laid up for over two years and just read bike mags. seeing the lads on their bikes, made me get better, but not fully. I've draw the line about swopping engines. one for xena. the new assy is now wrapped in plastic, tied down and covered in bubble wrap and duct tape. we removed the original carbs and this will save on labour. the bike is naked, looks like an 1100 and i left the main fairing for checking the warning lights etc. oil, neutral, temp etc. i was on the ball, the mechanic didn't asked me to do this. So we will end up with a 29 year old bike, with zero miles! no one will believe me! i will now leave the brakes as the bike is going in for the assembly swop! looking foward to hearing it run! I've never ridden a wing before. I met a chap in 70's at a bike show. he was very proud of his asp. he then showed me his memory stick and how he listens to mp3's. Told me he was only 5' 5" and he loved his wing! i will check the banjo bolt air lock, when the wing flies home! thanks again bs! Angel :-) |
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#14
07-17-2013, 01:54 PM,
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